Mary Wineberg (2008 Olympic 400 meter star!) and husband CLICK on pic to enlarge it. Aren't they ADORABLE? She seems so well loved! And he doesn't seem to be complaining. Look at him. LOL! (Also, read more about them in my sidebar.)Mary Wineberg SITE
Many black women continue to say in your comments and your private notes to me that men don't appreciate the beauty and desirability (as wives) of browner or darker black women--and increasingly these days, even many light skinned bw are shunned as wives by black men. You also continue to send me more and more evidence that bw are getting denigrated to the max.
What you're really saying is that MANY BLACK MALES don't appreciate the beauty and desirability of black women as wives and that many black men are denigrating black women to the max. After two years of blogging, this continues to be the same old drum beat in your comments, y'all BECAUSE you're still not accepting the fact that many black men are damaged beyond repair.
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Until you learned this lesson, you will keep seeing it and it will keep hitting you in the face in various ways. Once you learn that lesson, then nothing any black man does that is anti-black woman will confuse or surprise you. Now here's the shocker: Some of you have begun to believe that white men ARE black men. LOL!! You're projecting the thoughts of DBRbm onto typical white men. You think that since so many bm don't love our non-white beauty, that white men who like black women must not appreciate our array of chocolate to butterscotch hues either. LOL! Now last time I checked, I didn't see any evidence that white men were taking their marching orders from DBRbm.
So, let's NOT get this twisted. Obviously, many white men and other non-bm DO appreciate the beauty of black women and desire bw for loving relationships and as wives these days. Here's an interesting piece someone sent me. THANKS much for this piece. It underscores my point
"Shocked by British men's choice..what is WRONG WITH MEN IN EUROPE?"
I'm a college student here in the U.S and this summer I did the "studying abroad" like most universities have. There were about 45 students this summer from the business school in my University.
I'm 23 years and I consider myself a good looking girl because I take care of myself. I do not look down on others or races. I'm obvious white, 115 pounds, 5"5" tall, 36 bust. In college i have a lot of guys going after me and my friends.
STUDY ABROAD SUMMER:
This summer the study abroad was in london. We were so excited about being in london and meeting good looking british guys. To our surprise, we found that european men preferred to go after black women. This was shocking and such an eye opener to me and my white girl friends.
We went to pubs, clubs, restaurants. lounges and some other fancy places. It was the same. They bought drinks for them. Thats not to say that white men did not hit on white girls just that seemed to be on equal grounds. Which is good but surprising because this does not usually happen in america.
OUR GROUP:
our group of girls had 3 white girls and 2 African American girls. I'm not racist. Even in school this is our usual circle of friends. We travelled together in Europe and every where else.
WHAT HAPPENED:
Every time we went out, the british white guys would mostly be after the African American girls. My African American girls are also pretty. It's just that it shocked us the white American girls. We thought, we would be the first pick. I guess we are used to the white American guys not appraoching black girls, I thought it would be the same there.
LEARNING EXPERIENCE:
I found that in europe a white girl is not the most wanted girl. I learned tthat white and black girls have equal chances when it comes to men there. We found that there are many white men and black women couples in the U.K as there are black men and white women couples. Unlike in the U.S where there much more blcak men and white women couples compared to white men and black women couples
By the time we went out for the 4th times, we the white girls knew it was fair game for the men for both black and white girls.
I WAS HURT NOT because I'm white but because there were some guy there that i would have liked to have spent some time with but instead they chose to get to know an African America girl. I would have felt the same way had they chosen an other white girl over me
CONCLUSION:
Not all but from what we experienced we learned that european men view women of all races in the same way or view black women in better light than white american men. This happened when we went to France, Ireland, Scotland, Switerland, Italy and Germany.
Bare in mind that there are a lot black british people in the U.K. I have lived with black people for as long as we have.
I had a good time though. I learned a lot about other people and culture.
MY QUESTION:
Why is it different here. In america, i'm a 100% certain that if I were to walk in a place with only white men and I walked in with some African American girls that a white man would appraoch a black woman at least not in public or in front of a white girl.
What makes a white american man different from a white european man? "
SOURCE for this piece.
_________________________
On a side note, doesn't the disdainful attitude of many black men these days towards black women in the U.S. remind y'all of how relations used to be between white men and black women on the ole plantation--where black women were sex objects but not wife material? This same pattern is the dominant pattern between AA men and women these days. It's MANY AA men these days who regard black women as sex objects who are not fit for marriage or not beautiful (translation: not light enough) to be worthy of respectable attention and loving relationships. It's mainly many AA men these days who seek sex ONLY from AA women unless they're whiter-skinned or "mixed" in appearance.
I know this is an uncomfortable reality for some people, but AA women really have to face this squarely. Magical thinking is not in harmony with Living Well. Magical thinking will kill you and is killing lots of black women, stunting the lives of black children, and/or is causing the women to abort hundreds of thousands of black fetuses every year.
How stupid is it for so many black women to continue seeing a typical black man as a potentially loving partner when that black man is seeing the typical black woman as merely a semen receptacle?!! Many black women are not able to conceive that lots of black males see them this way because the indoctrination program that MANY black girls and black women undergo has convinced them to perceive the typical black male as "normal." Even some caring black men these days are telling black women to catch a clue and "wise up!!" These black men KNOW how other black men think and operate.
The fact is that many AA women are indeed wife material, and always have been, however many black men who have always coveted whiter-skinned women are now able to acquire the coveted object. This preference for white-skinned women really has very little to do with black women or even with whiter women. The whiter woman, in many cases, is simply a coveted object.
A white man offline asked me recently, "Why do so many black men date and marry white women these days?" LOL! Even some white men are amazed at this headlong rush of so many black men for white women. I don't believe this wm had any racist feelings about this phenomenon since he is married to a black woman himself and lives in a multi-racial family. I think he voiced what many people are thinking. This is quite shocking to them.
I think many black women need to repeat the following to themselves about this situation in order to clear up any confusion regarding this matter. Say: "I am not responsible for who or what any man covets. It has nothing to do with me."
This is important because MANY black men continue to blame their coveting whiter women on black women. They use black women as a cover. It's obvious that these men do NOT want people to know that they are merely coveting and collecting whiter skin.
From all indications, this 'blaming of black women,' all started with basketball player, Wilt Chamberlain, with his claim that he could only date white women because black women weren't "sophisticated enough." He cited as an example that black women didn't know which fork to use at dinner in restaurants. LOL! So po' Wilt just didn't have a choice.
Prior to this point, black men who dated and married white women didn't try to whip or blame black women for this choice. This blame has morphed and morphed and morphed to the point where the rapper, Yung Berg recently threw away all remnants of the cover and didn't try to spray it with anything. He just made it plain when he declared that he does not "do dark butts," because he doesn't like dark women. At least he didn't try to blame black women or darker women for his dislike; he just said he rejects darker or browner women as dates or mates. Period. Just think that if Wilt Chamberlain had just "manned up" and been able to just declare his love for white women without talking about forks at the restaurant, he would have lain the foundation for all of the Yung Bergs since that time to just be honest. And there are a LOT of Wilts and Yung Bergs or wannabe Yung Bergs out there among AA men. Sistas, BEWARE!! Don't let them sex you up and then later claim, they don't 'do' darker women. LOL!
In 2008, many non-bm are increasingly interested in dating and loving black women as life partners--as social taboos against interracial dating and marriage have relaxed. We are now in a phase where many non-bm are seeking ways to learn more about black women aside from what's in the media and many of them are, at this moment, wondering whether that cute black girl/woman in their class or at work who was wearing the yellow top is interested in dating a non-bm. There seems to be a mystique about what white men want from black women. LOL!
Black women need to realize that white men who like black women like to look at attractive women of all skin shades because males are males. Beyond all of the -isms, males in any society are still wired to be males. Men are attracted primarily to attractive (from their perspective), friendly, "win"nable women. Many wm STILL do not believe that black women are "win"able. For starters, they believe that black women will refuse to date them. I've received many notes from white men who tell me this. I see no reason to believe they are lying. Also, in my offline life, I've known of many instances where black women have refused to go out with white men due to various types of FEAR. Aside from similar social factors, primarily, many white men are afraid they will be rejected if they ask a black woman out. This is why Steven in the blog below says that black women might need to non-brashly/indirectly/subtly show that they are interested in dating a white guy. I agree that this is problematic and confusing for many black women, but as I believe and always say: black women will find a way.
To white men and black women: This doesn't mean that every black woman or white/nonblack man you express interest in will be interested in dating you. Some people are already committed to others; some have just gotten out a relationship, some are overwhelmed by other interests at the moment, etc.
The biggest struggle many AA women are still having is that MANY of them continue to view themselves through the eyes of the CCBC (central committee of the black community) and when it comes to black female beauty, dbr-AA men are the ONLY voices on the committee that count. These men out-shout everyone else. They have the greatest influence on thought about bw's worth in the bc. They are the thought-leaders regarding bw.
Now y'all can write this down: In order to cover up and divert attention away from their coveting of white-skinned women, many of these men are going to CONTINUE to denigrate, debase, defile, and devalue black women, so any black woman who receives and accepts the view of her beauty, desirability, or worth from the bm on the ccbc is doomed. Not only will those women be doomed; their daughters and many of the black women who they can influence will be doomed.
It is startlingly clear to me that any black woman who is determined to survive, thrive, and live well these days and have her children do the same--MUST escape the physical reach and/or mental influence of the CCBC. The black community of yesteryear does NOT exist any longer. If you think it still exists, you are inside of a delusion.
It's virtually impossible to 'Live Well' if you live too long around or inside the mental confines of the black "community." Life inside a typical black "community" has reached the point of vanishing returns for MOST black women who live MENTALLY in or even near these black enclaves or neighborhoods. Fortunately, I haven't had to live inside one of these hell holes, either mentally or physically, but I have associated with many black women who do, and it's a sordid, sorry life many sistas experience there. But here's the kicker: many of these black women **think** they live a "normal" life. They say things like: "Girl, it's bad everywhere, so there's no point in even trying to move." Or regarding the numerous DBR men who surround them, they'll say: "Men are the same everywhere. At least I know what I'm getting here." LOL!
All of these places have this in common: they eat on black women to survive. If you're a black woman who lives in one of these places, that little bad feeling or that depression that you just can't seem to shake is because somebody just took a bite out of you and is draining your lifeblood. Trust. They will slowly but surely devour you. Your children will be the next to go or they're being eaten already. You just won't find out until later.
You do have a choice. You must first decide to escape the CCBC in order to Live Well. You then must learn to be immune to or be prepared to devour anyone from the CCBC who tries to stop you.
224 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 224 of 224“Mary, what you're saying points to "the fact that there is a serious flaw in African culture when you evaluate the culture in the modern world. It's not prepared to deal with the modern world. But instead of re-forming the culture to meet the demands of the world in 2008, it seems that generally speaking, African culture wants to inherently remain the same. Yeah, it seems that Nigerians, for ex., build beautiful gleaming skyscrapers in Lagos, but the **thinking** to match the gleaming buildings is not changing in a way that advances their society in the world.”
Omg Evia, how did you know. For example, there are thousands of Africans working their behinds off to support family members back at home. Instead of the people back at home using the money to build wealth, there are actually many people who will simply retire at very young ages, like 20!!! Because they have a relative in America or elsewhere. It’s very tragic. Even with large families, most will stop working and depend on that ONE person that is in America. This is too much of a common story in the African community. But when it comes to Nigerians, they are very enterprising and this sort of behavior is frowned upon, with my friend’s families at least it’s frowned upon, but yeah, it doesn’t make any sense. And if you’re crazy enough to go back home, people will actually expect you to give them money on a regular basis. This is just what I’ve seen with my family and families of friends. this sort of behavior has substancially decreased the standard of living for me, my mother and my sister. I can’t help but be very resentful of my family back home, especially the “retired” ones.
“It's interesting that my ex-husband used to say that black folks are suffering because we have not suffered enough. He said that when black folks have suffered enough, we'll change our ways and not before.”
Evia, he’s right. Although Africa is not paradise, it is a pretty fun and relaxed place to live, especially when you have people sending you free money on a monthly basis. There is definitely more human interaction, parties and other fun things to do, in my opinion. Plus, if you’re poor, the culture dictates that people with more resources help out those with less. For example, during hard times, my grandfather would give rice to people who came and asked for it. Also, my father would give money to those that came and asked for it. Neither one of them were rich, but the fact that they “had” more, giving was the right thing to do. Now, if things became harder and both of these men and other men like them decide that they are going to save their resources (and that time is coming pretty soon) wouldn’t people be more ambitious back home.
“Christine said: When she came home to visit she was different, fluent in his language, sophisticated (he took her traveling to other countries) and just better from the average American woman.”
Christine, your friend is so lucky. I’ve planned that after the next four years, I will do my residency in Europe, even if I meet someone here in America, I’ve always loved traveling and staying in America for over 10 years is truly long enough. Your friends story is very inspiring though
“Usually, when I hear an embittered college educated, well-employed AA men talk about how a bw rejected him, he is almost always talking about a very YOUNG, underexposed, silly bw who he considers to be a dyme”
Evia, we all know most bm have an ego problem. Even the most butt ugly of them, still thinks he’s all that, especially if he is an “educated bm”. And with that ego obstructing their common sense, a butt ugly bm has no qualms about approaching a gem like beyonce or a queen like Gabriel Union (oops, she might be too dark for these “educated bm”). And if she doesn’t want anything to do with him, then she’s uppity, or has an attitude problem or is simply a typical bw. There does come a time when a bw is out of the league of another bm, but according to bm, we’re supposed to have open arms for ALL of them, no matter how tore up they are. And this is when I have to say, negro please!! There are many bm out there who feel entitled to the best of everything (especially when it comes to bw) just because they are “an educated bm”. And when they get rejected, they become bitter towards MOST bw because of that rejection. Goodness gracious!! There are many beautiful educated black women out there, and bm are going to have to step up their game if they want these gems. being an “educated bm” doesn’t mean much to a lot of us “educated bw”, some of us EXPECT YOU TO BE EDUCATED. So just being educated does not mean a bm has the right to dyme piece bw, they need to learn that and move on and stop getting their feelings hurt. And if anyone wonders why I’m so annoyed at this, I just graduated from college. Although there were 3 times as many bw as there were bm, these bm would strut around as proud as a peacock as if to say, look at me, a bm getting his education. Whenever I was unfortunate enough to be anywhere a group of AA men, I would always hear, “you know, as an educated bm…”, or “well, as an educated bm…” or “in my opinion, as an educated bm…” Good God, that really irks me. I have worked around many well-educated wm, some handsome, some not, but what always stood out to me was how normal and humble they were. That german guy I worked with was a post-doc for F’s sake but he always talked with me as a normal human being. And then you have some of these jerk off bm, who only have their bachelors, but feel like Albert Einstein don’t have ish on them. Yall, I’m exhausted.
some of us EXPECT YOU TO BE EDUCATED. So just being educated does not mean a bm has the right to dyme piece bw, they need to learn that and move on and stop getting their feelings hurt. And if anyone wonders why I’m so annoyed at this, I just graduated from college. Although there were 3 times as many bw as there were bm, these bm would strut around as proud as a peacock as if to say, look at me, a bm getting his education. Whenever I was unfortunate enough to be anywhere a group of AA men, I would always hear, “you know, as an educated bm…”, or “well, as an educated bm…” or “in my opinion, as an educated bm…” Good God, that really irks me.
LOL!!! OMG! Mary, I-am-scared-of-you!! LOL! You have missed your calling; you should be a comedian.
Girl!!
As you said, SOME of us **EXPECT** them to be educated or otherwise skilled. That's a baseline. AND for a mature woman like me, he has to ALSO be well-employed OR have created his own enterprise that is making money, etc.
It's not enough for a man simply to have education because lots of men with formal educations are unemployed/underemployed. The man must have DRIVE and ambition (not just talk about ambition) and he must be PRODUCING or have money or other resources that will enable him to provide well for a family. If he has drive, he will pursue every avenue to provide for his family.
This is why a woman MUST check on whether a man has DRIVE and not only an education and not accept **just TALK** about what he's going to do. What is he actually DOING? As a matter of fact, some college degrees are practically worthless.
As an aside, SOME AAs major in lightweight majors that are not marketable like liberal arts, business studies, theater arts, English, etc. There is a huge number of people in the market who already have degrees in these areas, so AAs need to do research about this and major in areas that will give them an edge.
Let me make myself clear. I'm not saying that a woman who works outside the home shouldn't ever contribute financially to household/family expenses. I'm saying that a woman shouldn't be EXPECTED to support the family, as many AA women are "expected" to do. No matter what the economy is like, that is not a woman's primary role. Many AA women come home from work and also work INSIDE the home doing almost everything in the home, including doing almost all of the attending to the needs of the children.
In many AA households where there is an AA man present, it's the woman who worries about how the bills are going to be paid. Many AA men look for a woman who they can depend on to pay bills and take care of things, and then the man simply relaxes.
This is why the situation between AA men and women is so skewed, distorted, and non-functioning, but when the woman complains about it to the man, the typcial AA man will say she's nagging or being TOO DEMANDING or not acting like a ww would act. I've seen this so much all of my life, and I STILL see it in MOST AA couples' relationships that I see around me. The man DEPENDS on the woman's income, so she can't ever get off the treadmill. These women are just worn out!
And on top of all of the work outside AND inside the home And with the children, she must still be available sexually to the man. I honestly don't see what's in it for these women except she can say, "I gotta man!"
However, when I mention aspects of how I 'Lived Well' with my ex-husband or how I 'Live Well' with Darren, these sistas become highly annoyed with me as if it's my fault that they're with their leeches.
So to younger bw out there, you should know that ANY man who is dating women should be PRODUCING money or have other resources because having a relationship costs money. AND if he gets sexual with her (and ALL heterosexual men WANT to get sexual with a woman), then she can get pregnant. Or there can be other consequences from sex, so no woman needs a have-nothing, do-nothing man in her life.
VET every man--well! Remember what I've always said: the choice of a mate is the SINGLEMOST important decision that any woman who plans to have children will ever make in her life because the impact of that one decision will be felt for generations. Depending on who she chooses, either she and her children will live well or they will live stunted lives--and they will do so for generations.</B
I wanted to respond to your comment, Pamela:
I am considered an older single who never married. Believe me it was not because I was holding on the the 'nothing but a bm' nonsense:) I just have not met a lot of non-black men where we connected. I am one that WILL age gracefully. I also plan to marry. It will be an interesting season in my life. I am also old enough not to care if the so-called bc screams about me being with a non-bm. I can silence fools where they won't try that trash. I'm real adept at that when necessary. Even though I have not met that person YET my life is wonderful. When I do marry the man will be with one happy chick.
Make your life the best that you are able to married or single. You will not die. I'm living proof.
I'm probably closer to your age than I am to the ages of most of the people posting here. You took the words right out of my keyboard. ;)
Evia, you said:
If Michelle Obama were looking to get a date with a typical Quality bm today, she would have a HARD time because she is too DARK to get the eye of many well-educated, well-employed AA men. Even Kenya Moore, Miss America 2003, and an accomplished black woman talked during an interview about not being able to get a date with bm on her level. Those bm discriminate against darker women of African descent. The CCBC keep trying to make it seem like bm dating out and bw dating out are the SAME reasons but it's NOT and we've got to spread the word on this.
You would think that I would have connected the dots on this when as a teenager I saw the difference between how bm treated me versus how they treated my lighter-skinned classmates. This was back in the 80s and from what I've seen it's only gotten worse. As I said in an earlier post, where I'm living bm don't even bother with the light-skinned girls...they go straight for ww. This town is full of biracial kids toddling after white mamas...I DARE any bm to challenge me on who I date.
Thank you again. I'm now about to get on with another day of living my best life. :)
Over the decades I would ask bm if they minded that their wives worked. The answer was almost always 'no there will be more money for me'. When I marry the goal will be NOT to be the main breadwinner. I have done that my entire adult life. The financial area is one bw really need to make decisions on. Evia stated it well about too many bm claiming that we are being demanding when we want them to be the providers in the home. This is a part of the super black woman syndrome. We do everything in the relationship and our payment is the fact that we have a man. This mentality needs to change in bw. Forget the males that are like that. Just forget them. Don't waste your time analyzing them or wondering why they are like that. FIND A MAN that is willing to take responsibility for his family, one that is moving forward financially. One person in the marriage should not be performing every function in the household. Again finances is an area that tends to break up marriages. When this area is in line it will be a lot easier for the couple. If any male tells you that you are being a gold-digger because you want to know his financial status you know he is not a quality man and keep stepping. If he decides to slander you by telling other males that you are a gold-digger or whatever else he says, if those males believe that trash they are not quality either. They are of no-effect on your life at all.
I am in Milan, Italy now and there is a difference with European men. I think it is hard for Black women..especially American women..to understand their desirability among all men. Cause we keep connected to folks in our community that do not want us to be free and love others. American Black men are a trip!! It is so ingrained in them...that they don't even realize what they are doing. Or maybe they do. If you are a Black woman who is different, thinks out the box, and venture other places without having growing aches and pains...then you are a traitor to them and somehow you are brainwashed by the Master. I am serious...this was told to me because I happen to like nonblack men. I think sometimes...its like having a relationship with a toxic relative...you love them and come around on holidays...but the rest of the time ...it is best to stay your distance. They are never going to like you and never going to accept you....because you think you are something...with your uppity self. I decided to limit my exposure to such nonsense and live my life to the fullest....in Milan, Italy...living it up.Only here for 2 more days and european men are the bomb!! Ciao!!
If Michelle Obama were looking to get a date with a typical Quality bm today, she would have a HARD time because she is too DARK to get the eye of many well-educated, well-employed AA men.
Are you saying that 1992 is much different from today? After all, at a relatively youthful age, she succeeded in marrying a black man who epitomizes quality.
Evia, we all know most bm have an ego problem. Even the most butt ugly of them, still thinks he’s all that, especially if he is an “educated bm”. And with that ego obstructing their common sense, a butt ugly bm has no qualms about approaching a gem like beyonce or a queen like Gabriel Union (oops, she might be too dark for these “educated bm”). And if she doesn’t want anything to do with him, then she’s uppity, or has an attitude problem or is simply a typical bw. There does come a time when a bw is out of the league of another bm, but according to bm, we’re supposed to have open arms for ALL of them, no matter how tore up they are. And this is when I have to say, negro please!!
Delusional- de·lu'sion·al adj.
1. A false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur (delusion in which one believes oneself possessed of great importance, power, wealth, intellect, or ability).
2. Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion
*This PSA has been brought to you by the Black Women's Freedom of Choice Association (BWFCA)*
Whereas MANY bm simply seek lighter/whiter women.
Many bm seek lighter black women. Those that seek white women are typically looking for women who are less likely to challenge them and are easier on their egos.
YES 1992 was different than today. Those issues were really beginning during those days but the hatred and vitriol was nothing like it is today. I only really began to notice these issue during those years in hindsight. As I stated it was in its infancy during the early 90s. It has blossomed into the madness you see not just in interactions with bm but in every media outlet. At least where I live I saw more bm marrying bw of all hues, glad to have them. More bm that had educations married bw that did. Michelle was very fortunate to get married when she did because she would have hell on earth now. As it got to the end of the 90s I came to the conclusion that many bm that I was around hated what I stood for just because I existed. I did nothing to provoke the hatred but arrive in a room at times. I was always somewhat of a rainbow dater but probably by the end of the 90s I came to the conclusion that I probably would not be marrying a bm.
Things were definitely different in the early 90s. At least from my perspective living in the mid-west.
Are you saying that 1992 is much different from today? After all, at a relatively youthful age, she succeeded in marrying a black man who epitomizes quality.
Barack was not raised around DBR black folks AT ALL. He was raised in Indonesia and Hawaii and received his shaping and molding primarily from his white mother, Indonesian stepfather and from white grandparents who were from Kansas. Whites in general don't think that dark skin is any less appealing than brown skin or light skin. We're ALL black to a typical white person. They don't get into the distinctions that AAs have made a science of doing.
So Barack never caughts a lethal case of light/white-skinned fever. He was not blinded to Michelle's beauty and went after her. He apparently didn't see her darker skin shade as less-than or "ugly" as MOST AA males do.
Mellody Hobson, who is George Lucas' significant other (in my blog header) also would never catch the eye of a typical AA man on or even near her level. They would want to sex her, but MOST of them would NOT want to date her publicly BECAUSE she is chocolate-skinned. This stuff is rampant among AA males and they're not trying to change their ways. Many of them will openly say it and openly discriminate these days, but even when they weren't saying and doing it openly, they were still discriminating against darker women whenever they got the chance or whenever they had a choice.
Just look at the wives and girlfriends of 95% of prominent AA men. It's not by accident that the overwhelming number of those wives and girlfriends are lighter or whiter, especially when you consider that MOST AA women range from chocolate to light brown.
This is why I strongly advocate to black women to do everything they can to remove their female children from the toxicity of DBRs and the CCBC. I realize that some people don't think that the situation is as bad as I'm presenting, but if you have daughters and if you're allowing them to be exposed to various DBR elements, and getting those toxic messages reinforced by the media, you just wait and see.
Y'all, pls excuse my typos. I'm usually typing and doing other things at the same time.
@ Pamela re:
YES 1992 was different than today. Those issues were really beginning during those days but the hatred and vitriol was nothing like it is today.
Pamela, I'm from the deep south. Without any doubt, this skin shade discrimination has been going on for a LONG, LONG time down there. It went hand in hand with the class system down there among blacks because the lighter folks were the offspring of white men and slave women as we know. In many cases, that afforded them many more perks than the non-mixed blacks. Even to this day, many of the lighter black people in some parts of the south are better educated and financially better off than SOME darker blacks, stemming from that. I could take y'all into places that are almost like throwbacks in time. Anyway, lighter black folks became **premium** folks down there for that reason--because they were thought to have more access to their white fathers.
It was really terrible down there. A light-skinned woman was almost worth her weight in gold to many dark-skinned bm down there during my mother's time. I have light-skinned aunts and I know how they were considered and treated like "prizes." However, since there weren't that many light-skinned women in the population--relatively speaking, and since a light-skinned woman was so highly sought after, most bm had no choice but to mate with darker women.
However, the desire among bm for "yalla" women or "redbones" was always covered up to an extent. It was never openly talked about, without an element of shame attached. From talking with my relatives about this, there was that sense of shame about it extending up to prior to the last decade also because of the whole "black is beautiful" movement of the 1960s and 1970s which was supposed to be about black folks learning to be proud of their African heritage. Also, many bm try to pretend to be so angry at 'de evil wm' which contradicts their preference for white skin. LOL!!
The real deal about that "black is beautiful" period is that as many bm as could were sexing or trying to sex as many ww as possible even during that period. They explained to bw that they were only doing that to get back at de evil wm for raping bw back in the day. LOL! But bw accepted that. What a crock!
Actually, the **reasons** behind the craving of bm for whiter women continue to morph and morph. That, to me, is a fascinating aspect of this also--ALL of the reasons that bm have cited for gravitating towards whiter women.
But it's all out in the open now.
Actually, I believe that bm desperately lusted after ww even during slavery and Jim Crow, but knew that they'd lose their lives for trying to get one, so light-skinned women became stand-ins for ww. Bm will continue to want what it appears to them that wm want. For ex. now that many wm are dating and marrying Asian women, many bm are also trying to get an Asian woman and complaining that most Asian women won't date them. SMH Also, now that bm can get ww and non-bw, increasingly light-skinned bw are also being rejected for these other women.
I think it's a GOOD thing that it's all out in the open because bw were being duped and used all along in the process. So now, many typical bw KNOW that the typical bm probably has DBR self-hating tendencies which means he doesn't prefer or want a less-light woman. I'm glad that Kenya Moore and other darker sistas are speaking out about how they were rejected by bm on their level.
This is very freeing because this will both force and enable bw to get the knowledge and skills needed to broaden their scope and choose higher Quality men from among a variety of men in the global village. Those women who don't do that will simply continue to sink and unfortunately, they and their born and unborn children will, in time, become extinct, as is happening now.
I hope so much that bw DO open their eyes this time and clearly see that MOST bm are out for self--totally and completely. Bw are simply an AFTERTHOUGHT, a safety net and/or a mule to MANY bm. If bw don't learn their lesson this time, they will continue to repeat the lesson until they learn it or self-destruct.
I guess the difference to me is hidden vs. overt as you stated. I never ran into that personally other than an occasional comment that some dark skinned gals had about lighter skinned women. From time to time I saw bm go after the lighter women. I rarely if ever saw any that exclusively went after them. Maybe it is where I was reared or I was around a unique bunch here. It is apparent the intensity of this depending on the part of the country you were in as far as a societal influence was concerned. I guess back in those days a lot of my darker skinned bw friends here in Tulsa married bm (probably all of them) and had children. Most of them are still married today (25-30 years) thank God.
I was in my teen years when you had the black is beautiful slogan that was very popular. Again you had the dbr folk but during those days was probably the only time where I was around a good number of bm that desired bw as lifetime partners. It sounds like I lucked out when it came to who I found myself around. However the older I got that changed. As I stated I really began to see the beginnings of the overt manifestation of this in the early 90s. During those days it was natural for me to think that I would probably meet a bm and marry for the reason I saw so many of my dark skinned bw friends marry. However I also liked some wm also so I was open to it. I was just around more bm at the time. However I quickly began to see that things had changed and women like myself as upward mobile dark skinned bw were not desirable and began the shift in associations.
Sidebar: Do you know when it became legal for IR couples to marry? I don't remember but I believe I was a girl at the time.
Maybe black men would date Kenya Moore if they knew she had some "indian" in her lol. They will sometimes consider "dark butts" if they are mixed with a "lighter butt".
A-nony-mouse
Maybe black men would date Kenya Moore if they knew she had some "indian" in her lol.
Well, those who passed her up missed their chance. She apparently got married a little over a year ago.
i think the black is beautiful slogan was an attempt to reeducate black men in particular seeing how , they were saying the exact opposite by their preffered choices in women (its suprising how we have been taught that black is beautiful was a general attmept to elevate blackness rather than what it appears to be, to deal with bm's issues).
i think the black is beautiful slogan was an attempt to reeducate black men in particular seeing how , they were saying the exact opposite by their preffered choices in women (its suprising how we have been taught that black is beautiful was a general attmept to elevate blackness rather than what it appears to be, to deal with bm's issues).
So you feel that black men in the 60s were DBR like black men are today? Has there ever been a time when black men were not DBR?
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Halima said:
i think the black is beautiful slogan was an attempt to reeducate black men in particular seeing how , they were saying the exact opposite by their preffered choices in women (its suprising how we have been taught that black is beautiful was a general attmept to elevate blackness rather than what it appears to be, to deal with bm's issues).
Anonymous responded:
So you feel that black men in the 60s were DBR like black men are today? Has there ever been a time when black men were not DBR?
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I hope Halima doesn't mind me responding to this Anon.
From a sociological and cultural anthropological point of view, this is not an ALL or NOTHING situation. Those are extremes.
There have ALWAYS been SOME DBR males in every group on earth since the beginning of recorded history, BUT there have been and are ALSO checks and balances in place inside EVERY society and EVERY group to keep the numbers of them from multiplying, overrunning, and preying on the rest of the group. If you do even a brief study of history, you will see this clearly.
If you zoom in on the in-group dynamics of EVERY ethnic group or "race," you will see that the males inside every group control the DBR males inside their group. It's the males inside those groups who prevent the DBR males from preying on women and children of their group.
In the case of DBR-AA men, there is NO system in place among AAs to control the large percentage of DBRbm and to keep these DBRs from preying on other AAs--mainly women, children, and weaker males. Instead of controlling or keeping them in check, it's actually quite the opposite. Many AAs have set up a massive protection and defense system to excuse and enable DBRbm and keep them safe by blaming every foul thing they do on racism. Many AA men have definitely influenced MANY AA women to think that the women MUST defend, protect, support, etc. them or else she's disloyal or a traitor. This indoctrination of the women is STILL going on in MOST AA social circles. Many AA women ALSO are major agents of indoctrinating other women. Just read any online board where AAs males and females are discussing black issues, and you'll quickly see how AA women are colluding with the males to keep other bw "loyal" to bm.
Also, another pattern you'll quickly see is that AA males **expect** for AA women to control the DBR-AA men! I want you to take notice of this. Whenever the topic of DBRbm comes up among AAs, you'll almost always hear the men saying, "Well, if only black **WOMEN** would do . . . ." LOL! Also, I've noticed that anytime, any lone AA man DOES try to say anything about the men standing up against the forces of DBRness among bm, the other bm virtually ALWAYS drown him out by saying, "No, black WOMEN should do . . . ."
Humans will NEVER, in any group or society, get rid of ALL of the DBRs. But the MEN in ALL groups--I've ever read or heard about-- are determined to keep down the numbers of DBRs among them and they definitely don't coddle the DBRs who are preying on their women and children. They know that once the women are beaten down, the group IS finished. This is why MOST men in EVERY group will try their utmost to protect their women.
In any society or group, when the number or percentage of out-of-control males reaches a certain level, there will be chaos inside that group, and this is what is going on inside of many black neighborhoods and black social circles in the U.S.
I repeat: There are DBR males in every group, but the percentage of them is kept down by the other men. They are NEVER coddled and defended, **especially** when they prey on others inside the group.
I was young during those days when black is beautiful was promoted. I was old enough to understand the message but not the actual reason why it was being promoted. I probably was too young to deal with the issues of dbr men during those days. It seemed to me that the issue was dealing with blackness in general from what I remember. Again I may have been a bit young to know what the real reasons were. During those days you did not have a lot of the hard core dating at such young ages like you do now. I know I embraced the idea. I was not thinking so much as preserving the race or any encumbrances at the time. I took the message personally. I basically took from those days that I should not feel shame just because of my skin color. Again I was fairly young during those days. I have carried that throughout my life. I took pride in that I as a person was created by God as a black person. Since He had no problems with it I will not either. Basically screw those that did. You can imagine my shock just a decade later to see so much hatred of bw from SOME BM just because we were black. If indeed it was an attempt to get more bm to appreciate bw it has obviously failed miserably. It appears more and more this hatred and contempt was not a new issue but amazingly underground, at least in my circles.
Thanks for the response Evia. But I was under the impression that that such codling of dbr bm was a more modern phenomenom and not as nearly as prevalent during the 60s and before. The men I know of that generation were overwhelmingly family men and were less likely to date out. They are often very critical of what they see going on with today's black men.
I can see a black power movement today really being about black men's problems (such as the Million Man March, etc.) but I am having trouble making the same link to black men of the 60s.
You can imagine my shock just a decade later to see so much hatred of bw from SOME BM just because we were black. If indeed it was an attempt to get more bm to appreciate bw it has obviously failed miserably. It appears more and more this hatred and contempt was not a new issue but amazingly underground, at least in my circles.
Yes, Pamela, it is pretty shocking--the level of disdain/hatred many bm have for the West African phenotype among bw. This thing is really a MONSTER that no one seems to want to totally unearth. So many AAs tiptoe around that monster! The women do that because they don't want to nail bm to the wall because as Halima said, it's primarily bm who have an issue with dark skin.
For ex. although I'm married to a wm, I'm also attracted to dark-skinned men. I have NEVER discriminated against a dark-skinned man. As a matter of fact, all of the bm I dated were dark-skinned. I was once married to a very dark skinned man. Maybe this is why I don't really understand what the big deal is about dark skin. To me, whether a person's skin shade is dark or light is simply a superficial trait. I'm facing the fact that I may never understand this idolatry of light/white skin among black men.
Whenever I've tried to talk about it openly and honestly with AA men in my offline life, there is a strange amount of discomfort and dishonesty. The primary reaction is to try to change the subject. LOL! When I keep pressing them, they will usually chuckle and say something like, "I love ALL women because ALL women are beautiful." LOL!
It seems that NO AA scholar or "leader" wants to dig this thing out and show it for its despicably ugly self. Many of the scholars and "leaders" among AA men are themselves also apparently affected--judging from the phenotypes of the overwhelming majority of their wives or girlfriends. So, there's barely any research about why it is that so many bm have such difficulty dealing with the West African phenotype among bw. Yet this is such and ENORMOUS problem. I've really been looking for research on this, and I haven't found anything that even comes close to explaining it.
On the other hand, I advocate that AA women shouldn't even try to **understand** this monster anymore. Just leave. Black women don't need to have their minds split like that. They need to be single-focused on leaving. Any group of men who overlook and/or reject Quality in the millions of women of their group simply on the basis of skin shade, hair texture and hair length is DOOMED anyway.
So AA women must go ASAP, especially if they plan to have children.
Take it from me as a brown-skinned, natural-haired AA woman who has mixed mostly with non-AAs all of my adult life--other folks who I've dealt with and live well among, do NOT fixate or judge on the basis of skin shade and hair texture and if/when they have, my skin and hair have been just fine with them.
But I was under the impression that that such codling of dbr bm was a more modern phenomenom and not as nearly as prevalent during the 60s and before.
But don't you get it? Much of the present-day coddling of bm stems from the 60s when bm made it 100% clear that it was an act of treachery on the part of any bw for her to publicly oppose bm in any way. Bm preached SOLIDARITY, UNITY, and yadda-yadda, and pressured bw to be quiet about bm's shortcomings in EVERY way, claiming that 'de evil wm' would use that to further divide AAs. Bm STILL do this!
Anytime, a bw is openly critical of bm, she's accused of being a traitor, disloyal or a "sell-out." Look at what happened to Alice Walker and poor Ntozake Shange ("For Colored Girls . . . .)who had a mental collapse as a result of being vilified so much because in her very popular play, she skewered AA men for the million and one excuses bm make for mistreating bw and black children.
The men I know of that generation were overwhelmingly family men and were less likely to date out. They are often very critical of what they see going on with today's black men.
We have to be careful not to overromanticize what was going on among AAs in the 60s or prior to that time. Many bm prior to the
60s weren't perfect. Let's face it--DBR behavior was simply NOT allowed by the racist mainstream white society. There were lots of issues there among AAs that were controlled by the virulent racism of Jim Crow. For ex. black men had NO CHOICE but to embrace bw; it was a life or death situation for MOST of them during those times. They definitely did NOT have the option of rejecting bw or dating out. LOL!
I can even remember even 18 years ago hearing a bm who was dating a ww express fear that if his new employer found out he had a white girlfriend, he might get fired or might not get a promotion even if he could keep the job. So there was a LOT of FEAR among bm about dating ww. This controlled many of them and kept them focused on bw mostly. If not, what we're seeing now would have happened LONG ago. The desire was there among them, but it was NOT allowed to be expressed.
Remember Emmett Till. The horrific picture of what happened to him for whistling at a ww is etched into the brains of many bm from the 60s. They were terrified! There are bound to be pictures of Emmett Till on the internet somewhere. Please--no one needs to send it to me. I'm just saying that to most AA men who saw that picture, any black woman would look very good to him because that picture showed the grisly penalty of what could happen to any bm who even thought of looking at any ww romantically.
Anyway, I'm pretty through with this thread.
I have wanted to live overseas for years!!! *sighs*
Oneday hopefully!
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