7/28/2008

Living Well: Say No! to Polygamy--Be His One and Only Wife


I received the following comment to my last blog entry from Aphrodite, a commenter on my blog. Please read it and the responses following it. I think it may, in some cases, be a life-saving gift to e-mail this entry (click on the envelope icon at the end of this post) to other bw who you know and care about. It will also save them money, time, and emotional devastation. Remember that when bw (in general) *know* better, they DO better. There is SUCH common sense and vital information offered in these responses! I'm also going to put them on my 'Common Sense' blog. PLEASE read ALL of the responses re polygamy/polygyny in the comments section of the last blog entry And the comments to this entry. I couldn't post them all here.
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Aphrodite said:

I practice an ATR and recently the most disturbing thing that I am witnessing is the promotion of polygyny among the African descended practicioners - mostly AA's.

My religion is a West African one and although there are a considerable number of AA's, Afro Carribeans, and Afro- Latins who practice there are also, American Whites, Europeans, and I have even come across a few Asians and Native Americans.

The promotion of polygyny is being touted mostly by the BW of a certain group. When this discussion was raised none of the non black members said anything, but it gave me chills.

Many BW confessed that they have shared a man either by carrying on relationships with married BM for a number of years or by being cheated on by their partners.

Their logic was that since a BW was going to share a man then polygyny is the answer.

They expressed ideas that single BW were threats to one another and could "interfere" with monogamous marriages.

But they stated that since companionship was so enriching to life and since there are so many BW who will be unpartnered and never get to experience this joy - that polygyny was the answer to this.

They stated that this would also help single mothers since the mothers would have help raising their children via the finances and emotional support that this arrangement would allegedly provide.

They then tongue lashed BW for not being big enough to share men for the benefit of the community. And that sisters were their own worst enemy when it came to this and we really needed to get it together.

They said things like women should get their emotional needs met from women and not men etc.


Then they went on to talk about how the women could each work to contribute to the collective household and pull her own weight.

Then some people talked about how this is our ancestral legacy being AA's and this is done all over Africa.

And others chimed in and drew upon current models among mormons, gypsies, and muslims that they think could be effective.

They ended it all by agreeing that this was a healthy and much needed discourse and they needed to talk about it more and hash things out before implementing a plan for it.

I couldn't make this up if I tried. I felt trapped in the twilight zone. I was waiting for Aston Kutcher to come out and show me the MTV cams.

All I can say is that I am sick, sick, sick behind this.

I saw so much DBR-ism and Mammy- ism and -isms I can't name yet.

No one mentioned anything about preventing the next gen of BW from being single mothers, no one said anything about BM responsibility at all.

I kept thinking what about the HIV rate? How nasty is that?? How are guys who don't support one kid gonna support several others? And if all these women have to work to contribute to the collective pot - and work on being good to each other - what good is the man? I mean women can be supportive to one another, helping one another to get a leg up without sharing a guy.

A host of things ran through my mind and the main one screams this is a bad idea. But it is coming up everywhere in religious circles.

I felt like yelling what about marrying nonblack men, but I got scared and punked out. These people are intense.
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*******RESPONSE #1: from Felicia

Aphrodite,

I know you did not ask for my take concerning this situation, but I felt compelled to respond anyway.

What you have just described is pure insanity. And any normal well functioning person can see that.

I hope many aspects of the religion you're practicing bring you peace of mind. Because like love, religion/spirituality is supposed to make you feel better not worse.

Whole. Not empty and stressed.

However, when members - in this case AA women - are considering (and supporting even) a sexual lifestyle that is ANTI-life when you get down to it, it should give any normal person period pause.

It shows that your brain-cells are working properly for the alarm bells to be ringing in your head.

The very reason WHY AIDS is ravishing BW more than other groups of women today is because of black man sharing. Sexual relations with a group of men that have a higher rate of AIDS do to promiscuity.

IMO This "polygamy" is nothing but man sharing with a so-called "religious" overtone.

That's HOGWASH. There is NOTHING "sacred" about one (possibly diseased) man sc%#wing multiple women literally and financially.

NOTHING. It is not a "higher order" but instead a one way ticket to HELL.

Black children are being made ORPHANS because of this nasty lifestyle.

It's GOOD that you got chills listening to this insane GARBAGE.

Some of those very BW who made these sad confessions need to get tested.

They've obviously been beaten down psychologically, spiritually, and sexually by life in the "bc" to even CONSIDER such nonsense.

And yet they keep going back to the original source of their pain.

Until those poor women FINALLY learn their lessons, they are bound to repeat those mistakes over and over again.

I'm not blaming the victim here. What I am saying is, "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." Those AA BW have been fooled REPEATEDLY by the SAME population.

And being fooled these days can cost you your LIFE.

Their "logic" is clearly illogical. And if they continue with this anti-life/death seeking lifestyle, the "answer" for them is going to be an early grave.

Single mothers can ALREADY help raise each other's children and share their finances and emotional support with each other.

And they can do it without being USED sexually as repositories for trifling damaged beyond repair black men.

And there's no bones about it. Only a selfish, self-serving, narcissistic, freeloading and DAMAGED black man would even be interested in this harem arrangement.

Because undamaged men realize that the DECENT - and most societally healthy - thing to do is marry one woman, be monogamous with her, and successfully raise his children.

IMO these mammies you're describing are seriously ill. "Tongue lashing" BW for not being whores.

Whorish behavior does NOTHING to uplift community. Black or otherwise. It tears ALL communities DOWN.

Getting emotional needs met from women and not men? Excuse my language but WTF?

It sounds like these women are either closet lesbians or cult members or both.

There's nothing wrong with sharing an emotional bond with another woman. Friendships are great. BUT, women are NOT and never will be (or should be) "substitutes" for men to normal heterosexual women.

A friend is not the same as a husband.

And as far as Africa, it's one of the hardest hit continents when it comes to AIDS.

I would imagine (and hope) that one man one woman marriage is being promoted there for their own sake.

Those fools are living in LA LA LAND if they think the AA situation can be compared in any way to these other groups.

And just look at that sick situation concerning that Polygamist Mormon sect in Utah.

There was an example of white damage.

All of those women and children being abused. No one knowing who their daddy was. Mass DNA testing to determine paternity and lineage.

That is exactly what's going on in certain segments of the "community".

And there's NOTHING normal, natural, or good about it.

There's nothing what so ever healthy about that discourse. And from what you've described, those women sound like brain dead cult members.

Lemmings headed for the cliff.

Those members - at least the AA black women - sound suicidal.

And they ARE if they implement this "plan".

If you felt intimidated/uneasy expressing your opinion that is possibly a GOOD sign that this apparent "religious" group/cult is perhaps not right for you.

If you decide to stay, distance yourself from the suicidal segment and instead focus on the non AA members who are NOT drinking the kool-aid.

Separate yourself from the lemmings.

Also, IMO a legitimate (and healthy) religion/organization is one where you're not afraid to express your feelings and concerns. Especially if they would be of help.

From what you've described, those AA BW have a cultish, insecure, and mob mentality.

And if they indeed do have issues with black women in loving IR relationships with white (and other non-black men), they're RACIST to boot.

And NOTHING good can ever come from being involved in a racist organization. Religious or otherwise.

Racism is AGAINST Gods will.

And in my humble opinion, when we forget Gods will, God forgets us.

Peoples PERSONAL decisions regarding who to date, marry, and procreate with aren't ANYBODY else's business to begin with.

And the choice to date, marry, and procreate with white, and other non-black men isn't a topic "up for discussion".

Black women are not children after all but full fledged adults.

And adults don't let other adults tell them what to say, think or do.

It's painfully apparent that many black women need to start acting like the full fledged FREE adults they are.

Instead of retarded gullible and scared children.

_______________________________________

****Response # 2: From Fxycleopatra

On the Polygamy issue:

I am Nigerian and I can tell u that it DOES NOT WORK!!!! Polygamy ALWAYS leads to problems. Polygamy used to be very common but is becoming less and less common. most who are in poly marriages are very old ppl. The parts of Africa u see it beings practised most are the very muslim parts so mainly among the arabs and muslim africans. Christians do not practise this and as most pple in africa are christians, it is not as common a practise as some pple in the west would like to believe.

My mother came from a polygamous family. i think her father married 3 or 4 wives. One day (a few years ago) i was talking with my dad about polygamy and i said that sometimes everyone in the family is happy (bcos i had my moms family in mind). he then told me that every single polygamous family he knows always had ridiculous problems (and it was not too uncommon when he was growing up). i then asked that what of my mom's family, cos thy all seemed fine? he said that up to today (they are all adults with kids...some even have children who have married), they still have problems...and i can tell u that my mom's family is one of the better examples.

The following are a few of the numerous problems caused and why it will never work in an AA setting:

1. Most of the times, the men are very wealthy and are the breadwinners. In AA, it is the women who will be taking care of the men.

2. For the poorer ones, the father could never FULLY support the children so they usually would send just 1 or 2 of the numerous children (ALWAYS the two oldest sons)to school. In AA these dbr are not even able to support their children from one momma not to mention having several kids from each wife.

3. There are protections available. All The wives are regarded as legal so have equal rights. In the u.s. only the first wife is legal and has any marital rights. The rest are nothing other than babymommas.....whether they choose to admit it or not!

4. Polygamy is not prohibited or against the law.....yet (hopefully it will be banned when common sense kicks in). In the u.s., it is a crime punishable with jail. So both the man and the 2nd, 3rd, 4th....etc...wives will be punished. The wives will only excape prosecution if they didn't know he was already married but since this is a willing polygamous marriage, the subsequent wives are just as guilty.

5. There are ALWAYS fights, jealousy, bitterness, resentment etc. children of other wives are poisoned or harmed by other wives, there is gang mentality from children with the same mother against half-siblings.

6. A lot of the times, the husband ends up being poisoned if one wife believes that at that point she is his favourite (therefore favoured in his will)

7. Community is built by close-knit families. These families are never close. Also, the children never have close relationshps with their fathers.

These are just a few of the EVER SO NUMEROUS problems that arise.

________________________________________

Thank You, Felica and Fxycleopatra. Y'all have made your case and it's a slam dunk!! Why should any bw share a man? She shouldn't and does NOT have to. It's simply a scam. It's also a case of these AAs 'seasoning their theories to meet their needs.' They're using polygamy/polygyny in Africa as their cultural 'cover' and to sell this bogus scheme to these unsuspecting women who romatically embrace anything African. These men and their mammies know how to sell this idea, and using 'Africa' is their strongest selling point. Have any of them gone to Africa, spent time there, and done any research to determine whether polygamy/polygyny is feasible here? I'd bet a ton of money that they haven't done ANY research.
____________________________________

Here's what blogger, Pioneer ValleyWoman has to say:

This polygamy garbage has been going on for so long. Some black woman actually wrote some book about it that the Essence rag published. Haki Madhubuti, who has definitely been writing from a conscious black man's perspective wrote in 1990 (!!!) about what Evia has called the DBR syndrome. Talk about being a voice in the wilderness: Black Men, Single, Obsolete, Dangerous?

Page 97: "
The male is on home plate and has women on first, second and third. This is, in reality, nickel and dime pimping and wh*ring that lonely and insecure women allow into their lives....responsibility to the real needs of these women and their children is not even part of the equation.

________________________________________
PVW, thanks for citing and quoting from that book. People act as if I created DBRbm. LOL! Haki Madhubuti and many others have been writing about them for years. I read his book a few years after it came out. It's chilling, but true. So many AAs cling to magical thinking. SMH

Here's the real deal. Black women do NOT actually have a problem dating and marrying. This is a CONTRIVED problem, created and stuffed into AA women's heads to keep black women chained to the "AA community" and AA men. If YOU, as a bw, think that dating and marrying is a problem for you, this simply reflects that you've been indoctrinated. I've been pointing out repeatedly, ever since I started blogging that 'your life depends on your thinking and on the decisions' you make--moment by moment. Life is largely a mental experience. If you think a certain way, that usually becomes your reality. If you allow others to create and control what you think, they, in effect, control your life.

The reason I have continued and (actually I'm asked) to continue to post pictures of bw-wm or bw-nonbm couples on my blog is in order to SHOW that wm and various other men are in fact attracted to ALL types of bw. If you're walking around thinking that you're too dark, too fat, too tall, or your hair is not straight enough or whatever to be considered attractive to many men in the global village, it's because you've been spoonfed this poison by the "black community" in general and and AA men in particular. These days, it's mainly self-hating BLACK men who look at bw and say Ugh! And yes, it's reinforced by the media because people tend to look for reinforcement of their beliefs. Why is it that the media is not able to reinforce this in all AA women? It's because those women don't have that belief in the first place, so it can't be reinforced. When they see and hear garbage in the media, they know it's garbage and treat it as such. These women are selective about what they do watch and listen to. Another question is: Why would YOU **choose** to watch and listen to anything out there that makes you feel bad?

I realize that the media doesn't present black women as the 'fairest of them all,' but I realize that's due to POLITICS, power, and control. That does not mean that I and women who look like me are not among the fairest or not the 'fairest of them all.' I also know that many men who think for themselves also know that it's politics that causes black female beauty to be downplayed. After all, they see us with their own eyes! They see that we are actually just as desirable as other women. Yes, many wm and non self-hating men of color can actually see our beauty. So I consider myself to be among 'the fairest of them all' and that's how I've always presented myself to men.

I've been saying this for 2 years now. WAY too many of you AA women ALLOW self-hating, DBRbm to distort your reality, which some of them deliberately do in order to USE you (polygamy, etc.). STOP taking those men seriously. They've been badly damaged. They only look like they're normal or repair-able, but they're not. Many of them are like eggs that don't have yolks (this comparison was taken from the Haki Madhubiti's book cited above.) But since you can't see inside the egg, you think it's like every other 'normal' egg. An egg without a yolk is going to negatively distort the flavor of any food you put it in because the yolk is an important part of an egg's expected flavor. A hen can sit on an egg without a yolk forever and no chick will ever be hatched. So many AA women remind me of these hens who sit on yolkless eggs. That type of egg is 'damaged beyond repair.' As a matter of fact, I coined this DBR term after reading this black nationalist man'--Haki Madhubuti's--book.

I am NOT saying now and have NEVER said that **all** AA men are DBRs. That would be STUPID of me to say that because I presently know, know of, read about, have known some AA men with quality levels ranging from regular to incomparable, but that does not change the fact that many others of them at all socioeconomic levels ARE DBRs and they **actively** prey on AA women. Yes, I realize that in many cases, AA women invite these men to prey on them because these women have never learned HOW-TO and have actually NEVER even been told to vet black men; they don't know how to find out whether the man has a yolk. LOL! This is why you MUST vet ALL men. As a matter of fact, when men of this type men reject you, y'all should be HAPPY.

Many people get furious at me because I don't go into detail about WHY so many AA men are DBRs. There are probably tens of thousands of books, articles, etc. about this topic of what has created such large numbers of DBRbm. They're not the focus of this blog. Find that material and read it, if you want. Women who seek mates are not seeking a history lesson or one about present day social structures; they seek QUALITY mates in the here and now, and DBRs of any race or background are not in the ball park of Quality.

That's it. Think on this as you continue to dare to Live Well.

32 comments:

PioneerValleyWoman said...

Thanks for quoting me, Evia!

Here is some more information on people opposing the polygamy mindset:

Jill Nelson in Straight, No Chase: How I Became a Grown-up Black Woman has a chapter callled D*ckpolitik in which she wrote about attending a convention in 1979(yes, 1979, ya'll, right before the AIDS epidemic began) held by the Black United Front, a black nationalist type organization.

Queen Mother Moore, "the grandmother of the cultural nationalists," stated that polygamy was the answer.

It is controversial, it flips people out, but may women are silent. In general, she found the men support it, the most vocal women don't.

Page 127, "With few exceptions, polygamy as practiced in African America, or at least in Harlem and Brooklyn, boils down to nothing deeper than legitimized f***ing around, except you can do it at home....In America, polygamy is a semi-legitimate way to have a younger, flyer woman without your older, long-suffering wife justifiably going off or heading for divorce court..."

Yet, it is a woman who is brought in to put the other women in line, that men are going to be dogs, there are not enough men around, so just do it, because it is a way of having a bit of something, as compared to having nothing at all.

At that point, she just clocked out..., page 129: "This meeting...is not about partnership and power, but about patriarchy and p**sy, and I cannot participate."

Anonymous said...

Damn, I'm glad you're back, Evia.

DiosaNegra1967 said...

With few exceptions, polygamy as practiced in African America, or at least in Harlem and Brooklyn, boils down to nothing deeper than legitimized f***ing around, except you can do it at home....In America, polygamy is a semi-legitimate way to have a younger, flyer woman without your older, long-suffering wife justifiably going off or heading for divorce court..."

"This meeting...is not about partnership and power, but about patriarchy and p**sy, and I cannot participate."

B-I-N-G-O!

as a soon-to-be-teen, i remember overhearing my mom and some other female relatives talking about "man-sharing" around that time (1979)...i wasn't even thinking about "dating" at that time, but i remember thinking....i am NOT going to SHARE my boyfriend with anyone else! call me selfish if ya wanna!

i thought they were flat out ready for the wacky wagon!

and, crazy as it seems....there are more and more BW who think this is a legitimate solution for black relationships/the BC as a whole....

Anonymous said...

Interesting Post and it is true that many females do share men and pretend that it is not happening.

I just viewed one of Professor Randy Pauche's video on living life with Passion and one cannot help but admire the way he praises his wife. Anyone can view his "Last Lecture" videos on You Tube or CNN.

What would any of us do if we knew we only had six months to live?

Mr. Pauche seemed to have lived his life with Passion and Excitement for his family, friends and life in general.

Ann F.

Miss Pinky said...

I am glad to see that more BW continue to come here and share THEIR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES such that it affirms much of what has already been spoken about on this blog. The naysayers who love to paint Evia as "crazy" or the BW who share her views as "cult members" do BW everywhere a great disservice.

Evia said...

Felicia sent in another "must read" comment, a lenghty one re this topic and I posted it in a blog entry on my Common Sense blog.

If you don't think the message is spreading fast enough, feel free to email these posts to as many others as you'd like. Remember that the trolls and other haters cannot get in here--though they continue to bang at the door. LOL!

CW said...

"I am glad to see that more BW continue to come here and share THEIR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES such that it affirms much of what has already been spoken about on this blog. The naysayers who love to paint Evia as "crazy" or the BW who share her views as "cult members" do BW everywhere a great disservice."


I have encountered these types and lose more respect for them daily...some BW either wish to keep others miserable like them...In addition...There are certain BW who may date/marry IR but want to be the most "unique" or the constant center of attention...These parties are deeply insecure and think that other BW obtaining the same level of happiness will somehow diminish their importance...I am just glad women like yourself, Evia, Sara T, Halima & others are dedicated to helping BW...

Zabeth said...

I've heard a lot of talk about this issue recently. Just two weeks ago, 20/20 had a special about modern day sexuality and relationships. Of course there was a feature on polygamy. They interviewed a AA woman who had studied polygamy in Africa and America. I quote:

BW: "Polygamy is an answer to the shortage of eligible men."

John Stossel: "But there isn't a shortage of men in the western world?" {B-I-N-G-0}.

BW:"There is a shortage of AA men! Most definitely."

Pathetic! Stossel just gave you the solution to the problem. LOL!One of the women in the black polygamous relationship admitted that she was trying to get her best friend to marry her husband!SMH.

Evia said...

I've heard a lot of talk about this issue recently. Just two weeks ago, 20/20 had a special about modern day sexuality and relationships. Of course there was a feature on polygamy. They interviewed a AA woman who had studied polygamy in Africa and America. I quote:

BW: "Polygamy is an answer to the shortage of eligible men."

John Stossel: "But there isn't a shortage of men in the western world?" {B-I-N-G-0}.

BW:"There is a shortage of AA men! Most definitely."

Pathetic! Stossel just gave you the solution to the problem. LOL!One of the women in the black polygamous relationship admitted that she was trying to get her best friend to marry her husband!SMH.


Zabeth, thanks for this. But isn't it interesting that these AA mammies didn't talk extensively to African women. Wouldn't that have just been common sense?They probably did talk to them, but didn't like what they heard. It's the man in Africa who's a PROVIDER AND PROCTECTOR. Period. That's his role.

I haven't heard one African person talk about polygamy positively and I've associated with Africans frequently for years. As these African sistas who have commented here have said, polygamy is DEAD in the water for any typical African woman who has a choice.

My ex-husband is vehemently against polygamy and used to talk about all of the harm it caused.

What these AA women are talking about "copying" is NOT polygamy. This is a time when I wish very vocal Africans would rise up and say outright, "Look, you AAs keep your stupid stuff in America and don't even try to connect it to us." LOL!

This is why some Africans I've talked with think that some AAs are really pathetic when it comes to things like this, and I AGREE. If AAs are going to copy African customs, why not copy the positive ones?! I mean, polygamy has FAILED, and even the people who've practiced it for thousands of years don't do it and are denouncing it, so why are AAs trying to copy it.

I'm going to be PLAIN. I do not ever want to unite with AAs like that. Call me divisive if you want. This is NOT progressive behavior; it's regressive. If these AA women want to be man-sharing mules (MSMs), then just call it what it is and don't try to spray perfume on s%it and say it smells good.

This is the same as KWANZAA. It's made up. There is nothing in Africa called Kwanzaa. Nigerians used to ask me why do AAs make up so-called African customs and call them African customs when all they have to do is choose from the many customs that are already there. SMH But when the Nigerians refused to participate in Kwanzaa programs, many AAs got angry and actually accused them of trying to "act white." LOL!!!! No lie, y'all.

I'm not going to endorse stupidity because it's deadly.

Another ridiculous example is when so many AAs make up names for their kids and themselves, and some of them declare that the names are African. Why do that when there are a gazillion African names already in existence?

Evia said...

Let me clarify that I think that Kwanzaa is a wonderful AA creation and custom. I love what it represents. I have gone to many Kwanzaa celebrations and have taught my children to embrace, support, and implement its positive principles. But it's not an African custom at all or the "African Christmas," as some AAs refer to it.

Also on the topic of how SOME bw embrace polygamy because they think it would benefit their children, I have advocated for years that AA women form all kinds of cooperatives organizations to meet their various needs and those of their children. Why not go that route instead of putting a bm in a situation where he'll simply be able to more easily 'pimp' (as Haki Madhubuti) bw. It's unbelievable to me that there are some insecure AA women with PhDs beating the polygamy drum and this legitimizes the idea to some lesser educated women with low self-esteem.

And those MSM sistas know that if this same situation were reversed and there was a so-called "shortage" of bw, there would be a stampede of AA men trying to mate with any nonbw. As John Stossel said, "There is no shortage of men in the western world." Does anyone out there seriously think that a bm would be willing to share a bw with several other men in a situation where there are many other women who are interested in them? If so, e-mail me your address, so that I can sell you a few bridges. LOL!

Evia said...

Let me clarify that I think that Kwanzaa is a wonderful AA creation and custom. I love what it represents. I have gone to many Kwanzaa celebrations and have taught my children to embrace, support, and implement its positive principles. But it's not an African custom at all or the "African Christmas," as some AAs refer to it.

Also on the topic of how SOME bw embrace polygamy because they think it would benefit their children, I have advocated for years that AA women form all kinds of cooperatives organizations to meet their various needs and those of their children. Why not go that route instead of putting a bm in a situation where he'll simply be able to more easily 'pimp' (as Haki Madhubuti) bw. It's unbelievable to me that there are some insecure AA women with PhDs beating the polygamy drum and this legitimizes the idea to some lesser educated women with low self-esteem.

And those MSM sistas know that if this same situation were reversed and there was a so-called "shortage" of bw, there would be a stampede of AA men trying to mate with any nonbw. As John Stossel said, "There is no shortage of men in the western world." Does anyone out there seriously think that a bm would be willing to share a bw with several other men in a situation where there are many other women who are interested in them? If so, e-mail me your address, so that I can sell you a few bridges. LOL!

Anonymous said...

"I'm going to be PLAIN. I do not ever want to unite with AAs like that. Call me divisive if you want. This is NOT progressive behavior; it's regressive. If these AA women want to be man-sharing mules (MSMs), then just call it what it is and don't try to spray perfume on s%it and say it smells good."

------------------------------------------

THANK YOU! AND AMEN!

Aphrodite said...

Thanks for all the feedback and positive reinforcement.


I did a google on polygamy and the AA community and there were quite a few articles that came up with recent dates around 2006-2008.


I guess I am slow.


It seems that Philly is becoming a mecca for this due to the AA orthodox Muslim community.



I tried to google the Stossel special and couldn't find any clips.



I do wonder what would make some BW volunteer themselves up for this?

Zabeth said...

Here's a link to the story:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=5396768&page=1

I don't know if they have video.

Barb said...

Hello Everyone,
I have some experience with polygamy with AAs in the Islamic community. Believe me it is very depressing. I practiced Islam for 7 years and walked away from the religion and all the wonderful sister friends I had. I left my violent husband with only $60 a old Geo Metro full of clothes and three little boys. Most women who live in that lifestyle are in poverty. One husband with 2 or more wives and 30 children. Yes, 30 children- I know of one sister that has 13 children alone. Some of these women choose to work inorder not to live in poverty and their paying practically all their bills. I met one sister who refused to work because it's the mans duty to take care of her. She lived in small house with no food to feed her 6 children and no furniture. She chastised me for going into man's world and getting a job, told me-we don't belong out there but at home.
I'm not going to bore you with my story, you've heard it before. Violent husband, wife tries to stay for the sake of the children but eventually leaves. Now I am so HAPPY. I have a lovely home and can fully take care of my sons without outside assistance. I am still a single parent but at least I'm not desperate to jump into another relationship.
When it comes down to it these women feel desperate. They think that the pickings are slim so they'll rather share. And Muslim women think the pickings are slimmer. No one is telling us to include all Quality men. And I wouldn't have gave it much thought neither but a WM walked up to me in a store and boldly told me I am beautiful. Well we chatted for a while then he humbly asked for my phone number. We have been dating for 2 months now, every step of the courtship is nice. But I'm not going to engage myself in magical thinking. Dating him has made me realize that I need to really look at other men. I mean really take a good look at them because they are looking at me, I just didn't notice it. Even he asked me if dating him has changed my perception of Caucasian men. At the time my answer was no I liked him and only him but now 2 months later I am paying more attention to them. I am smiling and making eye contact with them.
Thanks to blogs like this I know I have support.
Barb

sistrunkqueen said...

Hi Evia

Did you get my email about the Atlanta mixer? I am still getting emails and phone calls about the evening. They want me to do another one. I may put something together in September. It was fun. Also I am putting a where to meet white\asian men in the ATL. If you and the others are interested I should have it available soon.

Miss One said...

There are a lot of Muslim brothers masking their desire to be promiscuous by pretending to follow the ways of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) - the Sunnah of the Prophet. It states in the Qu'ran that it is better for males to take one wife. And only take more than one IF you can treat them all equally, which we know is physically IMPOSSIBLE. Marriage to more than one wife was established at a time of war when wives were left widows and children were orphaned.

Fast forward to today, I know a family right now in Brooklyn that has been pushing this trash down peoples throats under the guise of Shira (islamic law). But these DBR BM are pimping the women and pimping the religion. They currently have their wives collecting welfare benefits so that they can stand on the corner and sell inscents (sp?) and scented oils. Another group good for this brainwashing are the Hebrew Israelites. And anyone from the NYC area knows EXACTLY who I'm referring to. These men are using religion as a way to be pimps...Religious Pimpery I call it - all under the guise of doing the good lord's work. And you have some gullible women that fall from this. Typically the wives are young, inexperienced, and virgins. And they can feed them anything they want b/c they believe this is way to paradise.

Osk said...

AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS!!!!!!!

Are women forgetting about this. This really sick and twisted. It truly shows the lack of self esteem that these women have for themselves.

I WOULD RATHER BE ALONE FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE THAN TO BE IN A POLYGAMUS RELATIONSHIP.

SINGLE AND HAPPY WOULD BE BETTER OPTIONS THAN THIS.

To all BW please share this site and others with BW who think this way. Speak up (w/ caution ofcourse, I dont want anyone getting beat up), we can not allow this mindset to continue!

Evia said...

Mary submitted the following comment.
_________________________________

“As these African sistas who have commented here have said, polygamy is DEAD in the water for any typical African woman who has a choice.”

“I mean, polygamy has FAILED, and even the people who've practiced it for thousands of years don't do it and are denouncing it, so why are AAs trying to copy it.”


Exactly!! Grandfather had 3 wives and a lot of children. Yall, not one, NOT EVEN ONE of his kids are in polygamous relationships. Like my mother would say: “we are not going back to the 1950s.”

Another thing, the fact that many black men are supporting this shows you are dbr they are. They are automatically associating polygamy with sex. Any African man engaging in polygamy will tell you that it is a HUGE responsibility (does that sound like something dbr men can handle?). once, I asked my grandfather why they were polygamous, he didn’t even answer me (I guess it was just the culture). But what he did say was it was a lot of responsibility and stress. All those lives literally dependent on one person! (if these stupid dbr men can’t handle one or two kids, how can they handle five or more, like 19!!!). btw, my grandfather was a fisherman, all his kids (all 19 of them went to school, and school was not free or cheap). He worked hard, my grandmothers were all housewives, and he worked and gave THEM the money to take care of the children. Does that sound like what a lot of black men want to do, actually work and support their wives and kids?


“Does anyone out there seriously think that a bm would be willing to share a bw with several other men in a situation where there are many other women who are interested in them?”

Exactly!! why would you do something for someone if they’re not willing to return the favor. If these bm do not value bw, why do bw value bm so much? Why? And funny enough, when you ask some of these bw why they only want bm, its for stupid stuff like “I do not like pink *******

Delishmish said...

I am just glad women like yourself, Evia, Sara T, Halima & others are dedicated to helping BW...

.................

CW...My dearest, please don't leave YOURSELF off that illustrious list..you and Pinky are RIGHT UP THERE TOO.

I do love to jump in to conversations..because I AM a big mouth woman..who cannot be contained..but I truly don't have much to add to this polygamy discussion because it is not something I would ever willingly be a part of..nor do I know anyone who is so foolish as to be a part of such a system...

Anyway, why don't we come up with an alternate system to "counteract" this system as it were..I propose that women should implement our own "molygamy" too.


Husband no 1) For Financial Security only/ paying all bills

2) For Sex..mind blowing variety

3) For cooking and cleaning the house etc

4) Shopping- also called the gay non sex husband- (GOSSIP too)

5)The good looking one who will accompany you everywhere, and he will never speak..just look good on your arm, carrying your handbag etc, doing your bidding.

6)The Conversationalist..to reveal your deepest feelings

7) The Bodyguard- to accompany you to the "hood" to convert that last group of unyielding friends.

8) The Fun Guy- to do the wild and crazy things with.

9) The Traveller- the one who won't get on your damn nerves when you take trips overseas. (or anywhere)

10) The Quiet guy- for the times you just want him to shut the h--- up..but you still want to see him there

11) The Tech Guy- who keeps you up to speed on all the latest gadgets.. sets it all up and just hands it to you.

12) The Flatterer- "Darling you look beautiful today. You are so lovely, a delicate flower. I am the luckiest man on earth." (Yes, we need that husband too.)

13) The Scheduler- who arranges all your stuff, returns phone calls, emails etc..and makes all your comments on your favorite blogs..while you ski Zermatt or go on a Safari or just LIVE.

14) Well shoot, I can't leave it at 13 can I. Let me make something up quick. Every house needs a Mr Fixit...yes, that's the ticket.

SO you see Ladies..we can spin this positively for ourselves ...if polygamy is the hot thing..well so should "molygamy" (I don't actually think that is the real word) be available for us "womenses."

Personally, I'll take number 1, 2 5 and 6...I could rotate 4 of em (only have to sleep with number 2 remember)..

Um, I'd like to add number 13 too.

What about you Ladies?..lol

PS. I lied when I said I had nothing to add. Delish ALWAYS has something to add....

On that note....

Ciao, enlightened ones

Felicia said...

Welcome Mary!

You're a bright girl! Thanks for the REAL low-down on the FAILER of Polygamy.

It's nice to have an actual African woman's perspective.

About this abnormal reaction you noticed with some AA women...

"Exactly! why would you do something for someone if they’re not willing to return the favor. If these bm do not value bw, why do bw value bm so much? Why? And funny enough, when you ask some of these bw why they only want bm, its for stupid stuff like “I do not like pink *******"

You must remember Mary that AA black women by and large have been CONDITIONED to behave, think, and speak in abnormal ways.

This ignorant, unfeminine, and HOE-ISH (sub-consciously self-denigrating) comment itself reveals that they themselves at some level feel "less feminine" than white and other light women.

After all, if they were inferring that darkness is somehow a more "masculine' trait (which it is not) what does this statement say about THEM as BLACK WOMEN?

And THEIR private parts?

MOST black women are dark.

When black women out of ignorance so call "down the white man" what they're ACTUALLY buying into (and supporting) is the RACIST Eurocentric notion of white females being somehow more "feminine".

The dummies prop up the VERY two groups (WW and DBRBM) who don't give a DAMN about them, their welfare or their growingly single existence.

Where as a good non colorist WM (or other non bm) who MIGHT be interested in them, is of course turned off by these juvenile statements. As they SHOULD be.

A white man interested in dating and marrying out has the MOST options avlaible. There are plenty of women of color (Asian, African, Hispanic, Afro-Hispanic, Indian, etc...) to choose from PLANET WIDE.

Being at the TOP of the food chain, they don't have to waist their time with ignorant AA women.

HOWEVER, those women you were describing Mary are at the BOTTOM and will stay there because of their mentality.

SISTAS, IF YOU ARE AN AA WOMAN INTERESTED IN DATING AND MARRYING OUT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GET IT ACROSS THAT YOU'RE DIFFERENT FROM THE REST.

Because the ignorant ones often have the LOUDEST voices.

And they're making it bad for ALL black women. ALL of us. ESPECIALLY African-American sistas who are interested in expanding their options.

The mammy lapdogs Mary encountered are simply boosting BM's ego's - to the DETRIMENT of their own - in a lame attempt at hopefully getting in the "good graces" of the "brothas".LOL

The SAME "brothas" who proudly exclaim "they don't "DO" black butts.

What these mammy "protectors" of the black male ego/image think, and say is CAREFULLY policed. As is their behavior. Either by other damaged blacks in their environments, or by THEMSELVES.

Does anyone remember that scene in "What's Love Got To Do With It" where Ike Turner (Lawrence Fishburn) was hovering over Tina (Angela Basset) and told her "IM IN HERE" then pointed to his head?

He was making the point that WHEREVER poor Tina Turner was, HE - as a DBR SOB - was THERE.

That's what many AA BW feel. The "community" and BM (even if clearly DBR) are THERE.

Remember, whatever MIGHT bother/upset/threaten a black man - EVEN if there are NO black men in the vicinity - must be SNUFFED OUT.

The very thought of consensual, loving, white male/black female intimacy is THE most bothersem/upsetting/threatening image to many (not all as some are secure) bm.

And THAT'S why the topic of BW/WM IR relationships is SO TABOO - and sacrilegious even - in the "black community".

AND IT WILL STAY THAT WAY TOO. The "black community" doesn't CARE IF IT SINKS and goes the way of the Dodo bird.

Just as long as the black mans stereotypical (and untrue as ALL people male and female regardless of "race" are individuals first and foremost) Don Juan "image" is left intact.

EVERY TIME these stupid, indoctrinated, self-destructive mammies open their mouths these days, they PROOVE that they're nothing more than Dinosaurs.

Living Relics doomed for extinction.

Blogger Aimee from Black Girls Rule! touched on this specific color issue and how it's psychologically DAMAGED BW on the IR dating front before...

http://blackgirlshaven.blogspot.com/2008
/03/white-men-dont-want-you.html

While many black women cope with psychological or social hurdles in their path to dating interracially, one of the most potent barriers is the claim that black woman are unattractive, to non-black men and/or to men generally. This claim is generally hurled along two dimensions: (1) that black African characteristics such as kinky hair, dark skin, full lips and broad noses are simply unattractive on women and/or (2) that black women are more prone to obesity and less likely to properly care for themselves physically, and that it is this "self-neglect" that makes black women less attractive than other women.

Historically, the first level of prejudice was most likely to be openly displayed: black women were generally invisible in mainstream culture unless relegated to sexless mammy roles, but when they did appear as in anyway attractive, they were invariably light skinned, with narrower facial features and straighter hair than other black women, a phenomenon that continues to this day, though it is rarely explicitly acknowledged. Within the black community, black people also openly embraced the European standard of beauty, with elite black men almost invariably marrying light-skinned women, and all black women utilizing whatever tools they could find, from lye to skin bleach, to emulate the appearance of those women who were clearly most preferred.


I encourage EVERYONE who has not already done so to go to Evia's Front Porch and educate themselves on what's REALLY going on out there.

Delishmish said...

SISTAS, IF YOU ARE AN AA WOMAN INTERESTED IN DATING AND MARRYING OUT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GET IT ACROSS THAT YOU'RE DIFFERENT FROM THE REST.

Because the ignorant ones often have the LOUDEST voices.
...................

Felicia..this is a very astute observation.

I have been pointing out (to myself) and others, for as long as I can remember that I am DIFFERENT. I look at some bw, and quite frankly, I am HORRIFIED by their behaviour..and consequentially I always sought to distance myself from some types by doing the OPPOSITE of wht they did.

I think it is actually some primitive intrinsic survival mechanism within me.

One of the most disgusting "stories" to come out of the mess of Hurricane Katrina was of course what we have heard about the Superdrome (stadium)...well the wp (foreign tourists etc)in this area were among the FIRST to be evacuated because they were DIFFERENT than the "regular people" of NO.

It is unfortunate and absolutely necessary that we differentiate ourselves from these "people" (and I use that term in quotations, because MANY of them did not act like PEOPLE in that time)
Clearly, at times it is also a matter of survival to differentiate...NOW is one of those times.

Sandra77 said...

Delishmish, as always, you are HILARIOUS!! I second your motion for molygamy!

Mary said...

“You're a bright girl! Thanks for the REAL low-down on the FAILER of Polygamy.”


Aww, Felicia, you made me feel special (in a good way, lol).


“You must remember Mary that AA black women by and large have been CONDITIONED to behave, think, and speak in abnormal ways.”

I guess that is the only thing that can explain WHY some AA bw act a certain way. I have noticed that my younger sister who was born here does that attitude thing sometimes. My mom and I are constantly wondering where she gets it from. It only disturbs me cause a lot of the attitude IS actually unfeminine. During college, I always noticed that the AA girls always set themselves apart, but in a bad way sort of. Like they would go to the corner and makes jokes; meanwhile everyone is mingling and having fun. I guess a lot of them don’t feel that comfortable hanging around other people but the AA boys sure did. a lot of the behaviors of the average bw isolates them from other people. This only serves the bc and bm by limiting the bw’s choices in life ie having positive friends and relationships.

I do feel a lot of sympathy for AA women. As an African female living in America, I feel I can’t really blame a lot of them for having their attitudes sometimes. It is very stressful spiritually (and in your soul) when people constantly belittle you and put themselves above you. I guess that’s why I can’t really stand most bm and ww cause these two groups are very vocal about their imagined superiority to bw. The irony is that, as a result, I feel more comfortable around wm because at least I know they are not actively trying to prove their superiority to me (does that make sense ladies). This mistreatment by bm and ww has made me look elsewhere, ie wm. However, for too many AA bw, this has only made them want bm even more. This is clearly an indicator that there is something definitely wrong in the AA female psyche.



“The dummies prop up the VERY two groups (WW and DBRBM) who don't give a DAMN about them, their welfare or their growingly single existence.”

The mammy lapdogs Mary encountered are simply boosting BM's ego's - to the DETRIMENT of their own - in a lame attempt at hopefully getting in the "good graces" of the "brothas".LOL”


This is very true Felicia. If you ever have free time and want to torture yourself, go to facebook.com and look up under groups “1,000,000 black students”. This group used to be full relevant discussions about the bc. Now it is absolutely swamped with dbrbm and their admiring mammies. The nonsense on that group is absolutely nauseating. Ever other topic is about bw being dirty and nasty. But for some reason, the bw in that group still cater to these disrespectful bm. Some of the b females actually say out loud that ONLY bm find bw attractive. They are soooo annoying. Most of the bm of course agree with them.


Barb talked about “Religious Pimpery”

the thing is, for the polygamous nonsense to actually work, the culture must support it, as in demanding that the men care about their wives financially, emotionally and physically. That is the only way it can remotely work. Those men selling incense (sp?) are sinning. You cannot have more than one wife if you can afford it. However, since the culture doesn’t demand anything from these muslim bm, they’re not going to do any better.

HBC said...

I have encountered these types and lose more respect for them daily...some BW either wish to keep others miserable like them...In addition...There are certain BW who may date/marry IR but want to be the most "unique" or the constant center of attention...These parties are deeply insecure and think that other BW obtaining the same level of happiness will somehow diminish their importance...I am just glad women like yourself, Evia, Sara T, Halima & others are dedicated to helping BW...
______________________
CW,

I have encountered these types too and we all know who they are. I do try to avoid "bw pity parties".

___________________________________
Evia,

I'm so glad that you are back and telling it like it is. Please, don't ever apologize for getting out your important message to the bw who desperately need to hear it, along with Sara, Halima, Pinky, Zabeth, CW and so on.

I never understood why the black women on your blog and the other empowering irr blogs were refer to as "evangelicals", when we are the bw who have dared to go against the grain because we have decided to think for ourselves and were fortunate enough to find a small group of bw to support us on our journey.

And as for polygamy,I can't believe that this is what it has come to for some bw. These women need to be reached. Absolutely tragic.

foreverloyal said...

I have a few posts on polygyny so I will not blog in your comments section.

I will just say that polygyny is a more difficult form of marriage than monogamy, brings additional struggles and complications.

You cannot take men who cannot function in monogamy (and women who do not demand respect and fair treatment in monogamy) and expect to fix their problems with polygyny.

It's madness.

Aphrodite said...

Hello Pinky,

Well there is polyandry. :)

So what you want may be possible, but you would be very tired.




Thanks Zabeth,

I appreciate that link. I looked at it, there was no video only highlights, but I got the gist of it.



Mary,


"However, for too many AA bw, this has only made them want bm even more."


You hit the nail on the head with this one.







Thanks to all of you for posting about this. I think I have more courage to just yell out - what about looking at quality men regardless of color next time.


I had the feeling that this wasn't right, but after getting some historical perspective, hearing the reasons why its ineffective, and reading the first hand accounts of those who lived through it/witnessed it have made things really clear for me.

Felicity said...

Polgamy has always caused problems and many people need to look at polygamy in the context of various times. If we take the Old Testament, some of the men did have more than one wife, which they got from various battles and many were rich enough to take all these and their children, example David and Soloman, but these men were rich men. Priests like Zadok, Nathan, they only had one wife. Joseph, Moses, Aaron and many others only had one wife. In God's commandments, God talked about not wanting another man's wife and I would assume that would be for the woman wanting about woman's husband. During the time of Jesus, most men only had one wife, Jesus talked about having the one wife and how she must be treated. So did
Peter, he was married and he talked about how a man should treat his wife and so did Paul. It was only pagan communities who had plenty wives, also with in Islam, a man could only have up to four wives, if he can treat them equally in every way, he cannot show any favourite to any of his wives, if he can't he must only have one wife. These women who talk this rubbish are however intelligent they may seem are messed up, emotionally damaged people, they have no or so little self esteem and the devil is really making work for idle hands and they are singlehandedly killing out the community, with the rise of HIV and sexually terminated diseases, we are dying already,they are doing more that the lynching and the KKK put together did and the people don't see it.

Anonymous said...

I just came from a site that had me realizing how many mammies we have. The woman tried to diss on the use of the connection of what Evia and others have sited about what Haki Madhubuti said about black men Anyway she's also complaining about black people moving to Europe because they want to be white. When I read the blogs I realized wow that is mammism at it's worst. Hell she even got white people who think they are color concious believing that crap.

But I did love a readers comment who pointed out that a black father who's invested time, money into his daughters education wouldn't want her to marry a janitor when she's destined to be a professional. He may say something completely different to other black women, but let it be his own daughter and see what he tells her.

I'm so glad she said that because you had so many bw and bm talking about their would be more bw married if they didn't look at money or worry if the guy could pay the bills. I was like WTF? I hope there were blk girls/women who are starting to realize the insanity.

The other one was a women saying that she didn't want to man share and that's increasingly what is happening.

It's just sad that so many of these blogs pop up. I am so glad that I found Evia, Halima etc. or I would have been reading that crap and buying it or maybe not, but feeling guilty for liking non-black men. I'm not going to lie I was somewhat struggling with this . My eyes were opening, but now they are wide open

Anonymous said...

What these AA women are talking about "copying" is NOT polygamy. This is a time when I wish very vocal Africans would rise up and say outright, "Look, you AAs keep your stupid stuff in America and don't even try to connect it to us." LOL!

Actually many do. Not always on AA frequented boards, but predominately African. When I was younger I didn't want to hear it when I was in the whole Afrocentric mode(no diss on Afrocentrism). I wasn't totally in it, but I still had a fantasy of Africa painted by black nationalists. After hanging out with many Africans at school, work, online etc. and seeing the contradictions of Afrocentrism especially among bm I started to understand. I do wish the Ghanian forums, forums like naijarules or nigerians in America etc. would go to black American forums would say this as well.

I was at a forum where a commenter said that Afrocentrics or black nationalists talk to an African one minute ask about Africa and take that one little thing and make it a warped part of Afrocentrism.

JJ said...

1. I don't knock polygamy as a family arrangement assuming all people involved are happy and well informed with said situation.

2. I know folk who practice ATR's who seem to think polygamy is "our" birthright. Often they are clueless about what being in a polygamous relationship really means.

3. I've been in an open relationship (my idea, not his--he actually wanted a "traditional" relationships..I did not.) so alternative forms of pairing are fine...HOWEVER only doing so b/c that's what YOU want to do not b/c you're being forced or feel forced to do so or are doing os out of desperation, is key.

Anonymous said...

I've been in an open relationship (my idea, not his--he actually wanted a "traditional" relationships..I did not.) so alternative forms of pairing are fine...HOWEVER only doing so b/c that's what YOU want to do not b/c you're being forced or feel forced to do so or are doing os out of desperation, is key.


________________________

I hope you plan on getting tested for AIDS lady.